since 7th January 2008. The application is now online, on passing the initial questionnaire you are emailed a numeracy test which you take and then submit your answers, you have 60 minutes to complete four sections, but you can save after section, as long as you complete all sections in 7 days. If you are successful in the online test you will then be invited to a RAD (recruitment assessment day)
In order to apply for an advertised Prison Officer vacancy, you will be required to complete an application form. In addition you may also be asked to complete a Prison Officer Skills Assessment Form.
Within the Skills Assessment Form you will be given a number of scenarios and asked to describe how you have acted in similar situations. You will be asked to provide details of each situation, how you helped the situation and why you took the approach that you did to help. You will be able to draw your examples not just from the workplace, but any area of your life to include voluntary work or hobbies.
There are currently over 139 prisons in England and Wales. The Establishment Map shows the location of all the Prison Establishments, Training Units, Central Services and Contracted prisons.
Or just use The handy prisons locator.
they check you employers and your history back three years from now....that's the longest that a crime regist is kept in the police as well...
The best advice I can give is to calm down, it's not as daunting as you think. The role playing is very straight forward and is good fun once you get into it.
Take a deep breath and just be yourself.
lol its got to be the uniform 100% lol
I had my establishment visit back in January. Basically we had a tour of the prison (went on 5 wings), met lots of staff and prisoners, had a nosey in some of the cells. I was there for about two hours. We finished off with a chat with a Principal Officer would asked and answered lots of questions.
To all applicants, just thought I'd share the idea of using a powerball to strengthen your grip test as I heard it really helps although is a bit weird at first. I'm sure most of the fellas will be fine but I admit I defo need to improve on this, that's presuming I get that far, LOL!
Regarding the Police CRB check. Did you all get copies back from it? It is usual in other jobs to recieve a copy at the same time as the company does, but no-one has posted on here saying they've recieved theirs today etc...
bad news Im afraid,I have been told I failed by 1 mark on the literacy test which I found unbelievable as literacy is one of my strong points,I also received 4 x As a B+ and a B in the core subjects.I have requested a remark on my paper as all I can think is that a mistake has been made but I have had no reply back yet,I am totally gutted at present,Pluto.
Yes and what a swine he was hehe i would not agree with him you cant, he was making referals to females being a certain way;-P i just kept disagreeing but he was hard
Next day for me. Just never logged on for two days so did not realise Ps hope it goes well bartini
You don't have to be seriously fit, in the short time between finding out when my fitness was and actually doing it I went for an hour walk and that was it. I'm 6 foot 3 and weight 16 stone i'm certainly not that physically fit atm, I passed fine with pretty much breaking a sweat because it was absolutely boiling hot when I did it
i went to Birmingham for mine, my BMI was 37 i think it was fine there they just refere you to OH so dont panick lol and remember they cannot divesify lol thats what they keep telling you the reson where are tested on role plays how typical would it be if they said oh im sorry you cannot join lmao you will be fine as long as your willing to take advice etc
l've now been in the job 4 1/2 years now and l love it, yes it does have it days and within the first couple of months you'll question why you joined but you should get by, talk to work mates and your S.O. the prisoners do have a lot more rights these days and don't they know it, some of them will admit it's easier inside than out, however the discipline and control is still there, i will admit my prison is under staffed and the prisoners could easily make it a lot more differcult for us if they wanted, but we have good working relationship with prisoners and that's where respect come's in. you do not get respect from the pisoners because you wear black and white you have to earn it and then you will get it back.
yes they are done but provided you havent gone bankrupt they should not be a problem
The, 'interview' was absolutley nothing to worry about- and was very informal. It was basically a chat to discuss the issue of working with CAT A Prisoners, and if I was ready/able to deal with it, (as where I have applied a high amount of inmates are serious sex offenders) I am glad I had done some research though- as I was asked what I knew about the Prison and also any history/prev Prisoners etc.
I wouldnt panic as vacancies will always come up in your areas staff will always Leave ,Retire and get the boot so the door will not be closed for long ! I do know people that do travel in excess of 100 miles to work in my prison but i have to admit that i wouldnt fancy this after a days work !
a few weeks or months im afraid
I hate these age bracket things. Wasn't too bad when it was the 18-25 age range, now it's getting even worse. I'm now in the 31-35 one
I was nervous about the role plays before hand ..... you can get the how to..... CD's from t'internet. just click here
I haven't used them, but people who have say it has helped them. I say use whatever you can to prepare yourself to get the job done and the job you want.
A prison officer has responsibility for the security, supervision, training and rehabilitation of people committed to prison by the courts. This includes motivating prisoners to do what is best for themselves, and others around them, within a safe and healthy environment. In addition to their custodial duties, prison officers must be able to establish and maintain positive working relationships with prisoners, balancing authority with a large amount of understanding and compassion, in order to effect rehabilitation.
The nature of the role demands the ability to think on one's feet, make quick decisions and deal effectively with unexpected situations.
I'd be interested on the 'inside scoop' too as I guess I'm guilty of not exactly praising the private sector companies
All i can say is the accelarated promotion scheme is ok.Sift on applicants are good although some already serving officers also apply and get a place.
was told that u get at least one other chance at the fitness test, you need to reach 5.6 i think, you might find it easier with other people around to set the pace and for motivation.
Once you have read through the information on this page please click on the APPLY NOW link for an application form.
You should complete all sections of the form and submit it to us as soon as possible. Although, there is no closing date at present, placements at each prison will be allocated to each successful candidate as soon as their assessment and vetting process is completed.
The application process is fully online. The form enables you to complete your application in stages if you wish, by registering and saving your application as you go along.
The only union worth joining is the POA - a local representative will see you during your induction.
If you had a prison sentence of 6 months, the rehabilitation period lasts 7 years if you were eighteen or over when convicted, and 3 and a half years if you were under eighteen.
If the prison sentence was between 6 months and two and a half years, the rehabilitation period lasts 10 years if you were aged 18 or over when convicted and 5 years if you were under 18 years.
first of all you do the grip strengh test, you squeeze a device.
Then you do the beep test, its running for 3 an a half minutes to and from cones.
Then you do the pull/push test, its on like a rowing machine.
Then you run around cones. its approx 100 metres in 35 secs.
I think when I made my application many years ago the upper age limit was 49.5 not sure about the minimum limt.
Yes it is, I must say it has to be the best union to be in and i recommend it to anyone who is in the prison service to join up. You get a 110% backing from the establishments union representitive's. They fight your corner when you need it. They are always there for you and trust me you will need them at least once in your prison service career.
I have worked with officers who were also drawing a service pension and I have worked with officers who had their pensionable service transferred over to their HMP pension.
You need to get some advice about what is best for your individual situation taking into account your age. There has been a lot of messing about with pensions over the last few years and there is probably no simple answer that applies across the board.
Just postponed my interview as i wanna spend abit more time getting into peak personal fitness (although i know its not nessesary) and hopefully i can keep it up whilst working at the prisons. applying at end of year/january next year. ||
|| I have downloaded the bleep test to my phone, going to mark out the distance, and train on it that way. If i do pass, do they tell you on the day?
And than how long is it till starting date?
There do seem to be a few minor differences in the recruitment and selection procedures, but nothing major. I'm hoping there may be a few NI POs that use this site who may be able to post anything useful about the differences, failing that, maybe contribute a few of my findings myself as I go along. I applied for an OSG post over the net last month (6 mar) and last week received an invite to an aptitude test next Monday
I found easy not as hard as i thought it was going to be, the beep test was ok, but the cone run was a bit of a joke ,I can not see how any one can fail that part of the test.
Before my fitness test I had not done any training for a month before and still passed it to be honest i train harder now that i am in the job than before, I run 2-3times aweek and use the gym too but they have to set a level that will cater for all age groups witha basic level of fitness
There is no fitness test for GSL. They've just been bought out by G4S though so this could change!
I don't work with anyone who is unfit.
The grip test is fairly easy I sprained my wrist a bit before I did mine and I still passed it, so its not that hard
I've just bought a pair of elite2 boots with a safety toecap. @ £85 I hope they last longer than 6 weeks. My last pair magnum Protectors lasted me about 5 years ( I wear shoes in summer)
i think it is 35bmi
Prison houses got sold off along with council properties years ago !
You cannot be an undischarged bankrupt and should, according to a PSO someone else will doubtless quote, declare current serious finacial difficulty. Aside from that no worries mate.
It is an operational support grade,they do a range of jobs from searching visitors to licking stamps.
I don't wish to be the harbinger of doom but, it's entirely possible that when this fine comes to light, you may well find yourself rejected. Although you have an interview date in June, as of yet, no checks will have been carried out.
May I ask why you didn't just pay the fine as and when you received it?
Good news and bad news:
The good news:
If you decide you don't like YO's you can always apply to transfer to another establishment.
The bad news:
The future regarding pay does not look good. De skilling, reducing pay-scales, poorer pension conditions, non consolidated pay rises and an attitude that it is wrong to expect annual cost of living allowances. Add to that more economies (more for less), workplace reform (more for less) and an annual reduction in budgets for the foreseeable future (more for less), I don't think things are likely to improve.
Most of the banter between staff takes place in the Tea Room. Most of the problems I have to deal with involving new female staff centre around equal opps issues - generally from dinosaurs who either think there being funny, don’t recognise it as a problem, or dismiss the issues.
I have three straight female officers who transferred from HY due to the same issues involving lesbian bullying.
Would I rather shovel elephant pooh than be a prison officer - absolutely…. But although I was offered a job doing just that the pay was less than half what I get from the service - so I’ll have to stay until the mortgage is paid.
That is bloody hard. I would definately try to find out what thats all about if I was you mate. Let us know of the outcome wont you. I dont mean that you should advertise all over this site what you past was, just if you are able to appeal in some way. Or at least find out why you got conflicting responses!!
Yes it is very popular I don't know why
Typical early start.
Relieve night staff and do a head count having a smoke whilst you do it.
Go make a coffee and then stamp and sign up the ACCT's.
Scribble in the E-Man book(s).
Quick ganders at the Obs book.
Continue drinking coffee whilst doing the role boards for that morning.
You won't get in as there is yearly fitness test now for new staff.I would not worry as i am sure you are fit enough and when i joined many moons ago bleep test was over 8.
Think carefully before advertising the fact that you are a prison officer on your car etc. There are far too many people out there who have an extremely bad attitude towards prison officers, and you could end up with a brick through your windscreen.
too much information to summarise - click here for "further info"
Because it's better than sitting in an office all day, bored out of your mind, e-mailing your mates back and forth and literally falling asleep at your desk... like I used to!
hey Taffy, I just worked out the speed in metres/seconds and 8.5km/h is about right to be honest, but seriously, it is a brisk walk to start and increase to a steady jog over 3.5 minutes - you would need some serious fitnes issues not to pass it. I'm sure you'll have tried the download version by now, it's a breeze.
it's all about suicides and race relations now they tell me. I had a NEPO in the office the other day asking me the difference between a Judge and a Magistrate and what does "J.R'd" mean??? Then he asked what the chain was on my shirt going from one pocket to the other. I said it was my whistle (I know, I've just always worn it like that over my tie). He didn't say it but he was thinking why do we need whistles?
Evening entertainment??? EVENING ENTERTAINMENT!!!???? You're there to work man not play. OK to answer your question. There's a bar thats open from 1800 to 2300 (I think, could be 2330), there are two rooms - the green room and the blue room with TV, pool and snooker tables in and erm thats about it. You are warned on your induction not to go getting too drunk and most people are sticking to this. But be aware that if you're drunk then your section will get a bad name.
As i understand it, your paid from Day 1 of the training and get paid on the last working day of each month.
Hi Tig, not sure what time lates start, I think it depends on how late you are when planning to travel. The earlier you travel the safer on a train, later means less people in the carriages, so perhaps less safer, but also much less traffic on the roads. A few dry runs by car, and perhaps take a rail trip with somebody at the allotted time will give you an idea.
Its very hard to get your toil usually, some prison have EGP's which you can have instead of toil, which is a flat rate, but this is usually for bed watches
Get used to being a November for about 6 months or so, then spending a couple of years as either a movements officer or cleaning officer! Then you might get the opportunity to 'specialise'
You can wear boots or shoes as long as they are black and reasonably smart (polish up)
A good Officer is someone who can make a decision, know they are right, stick by their judgement, say NO and mean it, use their own common sense, and be prepared for danger and accept it when it happens without taking their experiences home with them. Overall NEVER back down.
Basic salary £17.774. This is something about £1450 per month. And the question is: this is before or after tax ??
From what i have read on here there is a national shortage but you may be lucky if the prison your allocated to has some uniform in stores and i think that you are expected to turn up in as close as possible clothes to the uniform.
As much facial hair as you like and non offensive tattoos.
The college is where all officers are trained in Nireland. The course is 8 weeks, 6 weeks at college, 2 on the job. One year probation.
They have the same as the men except v-neck type blouses/shirts so we wont get the added protection of the bullet/stab proof tie!
No difference in pay, you get an additional 11 days leave a year to compensate for Bank Holidays. So effectively flat rate and day in lieu.
Im pretty sure the fitness test is done before training, about half way through the vetting process. From what i have read you dont seem to hear nothing for weeks then all of a sudden you get an email saying you have the fitness test next week! Don't seem to give much notice!
You should be given a mentor to guide you but really its just crack on with it mate !
no 32 is not too old in the slightest,you have 30 solid years to serve and you can bring skills and experience that others most likely couldnt.....plus after dealing with kids its gotta help...no?
0845 0103 508........
In my establishment we get a weekend off every two weeks , some weekends will be a 2 day , 3 day or four day weekend depends were you are in the shift pattern . Some weeks you can do 8 days without a day off it all depends on the rota and were you are on it !
Well i've seen the reference form....
Not really anything to worry about....Just ask the employer for a description of the job that you're currently doing, if past employer a reason for leaving...(My director had already filled mine in saying career change, when i pointed it out that it went to past employers as well) a set number of questions to which he can either tick something positive or something negative
I have asked this question before, in the 'tattoos' thread. General answer is yes. No one has said anything to me about removing mine, and apparently there are even some eyebrow piercings around, but doubt I would like to chance having one of these on the landings!!
I have been in a similar situation as yourself, When I applied for the job my husband thought I was having a bit of a laugh as previously I had been studying for nursing. My husband is a Security Manager and did try to tell me of all the bad points of doing that kind of work.
He was saying things like why do you want to do that, and whats wrong with nursing etc etc...
I started with a pair of Centec work boots which were cheap but were ok for a while then got the usual Magnums which are doing alright so far. Id say whatever fits well and looks decent is best, you are going to spend many many hours wearing them and walk far! Steels are not permitted in case you use them to kick people (unless you are a prisoner on the gardens or paint party in which case the prison will issue you are pair!!)
the role plays are nowhere near as scary as everyone thinks they will be and the people you will be dealing with are very good at geting in character so it feels very real.
Theres lots of chat about these JSACs on here so have a nose about and you will soon relax.
Hi, Ive been asking if this is possible at every stage of the process, and have been told by a number of people that I have to wait until Im contacted by the admin staff after the final stages are complete.
This is what I was told by both the POST staff and the JASAC staff. So Im just waiting now for the admin staff to get in touch, its been 6 weeks since i passed the JASAC so hopefully it shouldnt be very long.
Ill let you know what they say when the let me know.
We have rugby union teams in the south not sure about the north we also have football hockey netball teams as well as golf soceitys.
Save yourself the bother mate. Open the nearest window and shout out of it then go back to what you were doing safe in the knowledge your query will be dealt with in exactly the same way as it would had you spoken to SSC
Prison Officer Entry Level Training (POELT) provides new officers with the foundation skills and knowledge they need to begin their Prison Service careers. It’s an 8-week course, with training shared between home establishments and a training delivery site. This could be Prison Service College Newbold Revel or one of our local sites.
Have you declared this? You must. It may not stop you application but if they find out and you didnt disclose it will be likely to stop it dead.
The RAD are all over the country you will get a few options and have to select one although you will probably have to travel
too many lady responses to summarise, click on "further info"
Yes this is possible, I am applying in 2 weeks time, You need to get a written notice from the governor of approval to send with your Special constable Application form
Don't worry, a CV is not requied, the only paperwork you need is the forms you have filled in and the proofs of ID and address
When i took my JSAC there were 4 other people there i was the only one that was there for the first time the others were on there second time around, i dont know whether they passed or not. So its hard to say if everyone gets through.
I believe they do use the electorial register as a means of checking ones ID. I am just waiting for my security clearance to go through and I know the person I gave the Prison Service as a personnel reference, was picked up for not being on the electoral register at the address I had given ,as he had moved into his new house two weeks prior. Fortunately for me he wrote back for me and explained his circumstances. So just keeping my fingers crossed that it all works out.
Dog handler search/attack
Healthcare officer
Instructional officers anything from fixing cars to gardening
PEI gym instructors
Race relations officer
Police liaison officer
safer custody officer
Security officer
Unfortunately in the Prison service this is shunned upon and the governors leave you to pound the landings until your due date, sometimes on your own.
Don’t agree with it, but that’s the system, it’s all down to a shortage of staff, the governors say it is quite safe as historically a pregnant officer has never been assaulted
All height restrictions were done away with some years ago under the anti discrimination laws. They were deemed to cause "indirect discrimination" by disproportionately affecting women and asians.
I think the height limits were originally 5'10" for men and 5'5" for woman, reduced to 5'5" for both, then done away with altogether.
I've worked in Dispersal, B and C. At the end of the day prison is prison and prisoners are prisoners - cat C's can be cat A's next time round and cat A's generally become cat C's, eventually. Categorisation is mainly about escape potential, not behaviour, attitude or crime. Don't get too bogged down with it.
I was told on the day & you only need a low level of fitness , just do some jogging for 15 to 20 mins or so, add a few short sprints
You know, I dont want to start moaning or disheartening anybody but unfortunately this has to be said. The whole recruitment campaign so far seems to be nothing but a complete shambles I'm afraid to say. People are being rejected for reasons they dont know or understand. Other people, like jdaggerz have had this strange phone call... WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON PEOPLE??.... It certainly makes a person feel slightly shaky about giving up a job and starting on a, what should and could be a demanding, enjoyable but fairly safe career in the Prison Service. The readings on the forum so far certainly do not reflect what is promised on the website under 'careers'
hi tilts we average 39 hours a week.we are required to work shifts including weekends and nights.I do a week of nights every 6 months followed by a week off and 1 weekend in 3.
A main shift is 7:30 to 17:15 then we have the dreaded A shift 7:30 to 21:00 a late shift 12:30 to 21:00 and an early 7:30 to 12:30 and my fav the rest day when I spend time with my lovely son and girlfreind.the week can consist of any combo of these shifts some weeks are longer than others and some prisons work every other weekend or 1 in 4.
No two prisons are the same so this is only a guide hope it helps good luck with the selection tests,remeber to keep your cool and you will be fine
I would be more worried about the flack you will get from the prisoners over your age !
It will be difficult for you !
im not sure but having a relative inside should not make any difference the only problam is you will not be able to work where they are. Like has been put before be honest about it, try phoning the help line and asking them as they will know
The last serious assault on an Officer in our Prison was dealt with by the con being shipped to another prison and now the Police are pressing for common assault..but saying that we have had situations where Officers have not pressed charges. As for PPE you get your extendable baton and your wits and thats your lot.
If you part of a planned take out ie grabbing someone out of a cell you wear full protective equipment..helmet with visor..protective pads for arms and legs..slash proof gloves etc..all good fun
recently purchased some Magnums myself, get yourself down to Millets (outdoor leisure type shop) they have a few styles you can try for size. I bought the Response 8" ones Very comfortable and resonably priced too!
If you do decide to purchase from said store Prison Officers get 10% discount!
I am not sure harder is the correct word,challenging maybe in the sense that there are a few more issues to deal with compared with a male nic.Also they tend to band lots of diffrent cat's together because unlike the male estate there are only two types of prisoner suitable for open or closed,and rarely the odd cat a here and there.
So the fact that you have all these diffrent types of offenders under one roof is possible why people say it is harder.another way of looking at it is you get to look at all these diffrent types of prisoners in your first post and then you can decide were you want to go from there.
Hi, i took and passed my juvenile JSAC last month, apparently not many pass and those that do are always put in juvenile prisons (wish id of known this before hand, i may not have tried so hard, lol)
Its hard to give advice really unless you get the exact same scenario which i should imagine changes regularly, Just be yourself, get the required answers from the role player as written in the brief, if they have done something wrong you need to explain to them that its wrong and why its wrong, make it clear you want to help them and your here for them if they need to talk about anything, offer good advice for any problems they give you and listen for clues for further problems they may be having but need encouragement to talk about it, if the same thing is said twice you've missed something and it wont be said a third time.
You will have to complete a year in which ever role they give you before they agree to you taking a course in PE or indeed dog handling,unless you are incredable lucky the prison service like to see you in action for a year untill they agree to spend any more money training you.
Everywhere is different. The only common pattern is alternate weekends on in almost all gaols, unless on self rostering. The general rule is 2 rest days a week, one of which will be a weekend day. As the week starts on a Sunday, the Saturday rest day in one week is put back to back with the Sunday rest day in the next week to give you the weekend off. Sometimes referred to as the 10 day fortnight.
It's £60 (2x£30) but you pay tax on it.
Hi I am starting at HMP Ranby on feb 11th still havent left my old job yet but picked up my uniform ready for my first day last week. So well on the ball here. Although I got 5 short sleeve shirts and only 2 long ones. summer it aint... And 1 pair of trousers, better make sure I keep em clean!!!
i did mine long time ago in wakefield . i *believe* the PT side of it has been cut back , it wasnt hard anyway aslong as you have 2 arms and legs C+R is a riot(sic) so you'll enjoy it. academic ? if you can pass the JSAC/entrance exam you will fly it. it is not hard! more of giving you the skills than trying to fail you. the other way to look at it is your gov has paid alot of money to get that far , your not gonna fail. im sure someone will argue the toss but ive NEVER heard of someone being binned for being thick rugby is bit of a trip away in a taxi . bar onsite is good and cheap. just remember walls have eyes\ears so dont fill ya sel full of pop and act the tw@ when i did mine there was no curfew / late book etc etc - you had to be in class by 0830 dead or alive , didnt matter if you stopped out all night enjoy , you will love it
M - 'main' think of it as main part of day - 0730- 1730 , give or take a bit depending on establishment
A - all day ! 0730 - 2100 - same as above - might be variations
E - early - 0730 til dinner time
L - late - dinner time til 2100 ish (see above )
I've visited several times as I am in the process of joining HMP. Next step JSAC. I saw your post which prompted me to take the plunge and join in. Thanks to everybody for the help and tipps so far
Hi, 5 months in total for me. It seems ages at the time, but after you do your JSAC things get moving quickly.
You will love your training,just take it easy on the booze when you have C&R in the mornings.The job itself is very rewarding if you want it to be or you can just pick up your paycheck and moan about the job for the next 20 years.
Somedays you win some you lose,all days you have your new mates looking out for ya that is one of the best things about the job.
Watch out for the officers trying to get a rocket jet promotional career they are likely to get you in bother and stay profesional as much of the time as you can it what makes a good screw or a bad one as the case may be.
Remember to wear your POA badge with pride and if you dont think the job is for you after 6 months then leave because it is a good job but it aint worth crying for.
As an officer on the landing you will be working week on week off with all sorts of shifts in the middle to bring you up to a 39 hour week , all nicks are totally different but the normal shifts are something like this
Early 07.00-13.00
Main 07.30-17.30
All day 07.30-21.00
What to wear on the landings , well your right most people wear magnums although guardian angel thinks I probably wear highly polished shoes with hundreds of blakees on the bottom ?
As long as they are boots or shoes, and are polished and are black and comfortable they will do.
Look at the LIST OF JOB CLASSES and click on HMP
Well I believe the cd explains the process but essentially you'll be invited to take the entrance tests which aren't too difficult.
Once you've passed those then you'll do JSAC's which is four role playing scenario's (not prison based).
Again if sucessful it's medical and fitness test which is a 'doddle'.
Finally the background checks.
The process can take up to twelve months though!
try the contact page
there are 9 other colours/ designs to choose from!! just change it oin your profile
inform your line manager as soon as you find out
falkor and Self Tapper .. click "further info" for more
The following tutorial is a step by step guide on how to upload a single image into your account using the main Photobucket uploader.
His advice is good but i must also say the support and encouragement from all the members has been superb breakoff just gives it straight and from a different view which is what this site is all about.
I am partial to a little knitting and needlecraft. The people down the village hall have a great crack when we are on our next assignment of doing the big quilts for charity. It is such a blast.
a chatroom will only work
a) if there is a genuine enthusiasm for one, from at least a dozen members
b) if those members let everybody KNOW a couple of days in advance of WHEN the chat day/ time will be each time
SO, how many people actually want a chat room? it' s easily set up
All I can say is Dads Army
Or Hancocks Half Hour
or all of the above.
Even in liquid form they were great
You still can't beat Steptoe & Son!!!